Enough people want to keep competitive elections for president to defeat the amendment which would have allowed a reduction to one candidate. The AIW on COVID-19 and health care passed, as did a resolution for UUA to divest from companies which are anti-union, environmental polluters, and owners of sweatshops.
Yes. 13% I think. But let us remember that around 500 of the delegate population of any GA are religious professionals appointed by the UUA. As I said elsewhere, we regard this election as something of a shot across the proverbial bow.
“A shot across the proverbial blow”? Is that like your describing Jay Kiskel’s campaign as him being “the first Marine on the beach”? You don’t usually hear militaristic type language among UUs talking about the direction of our movement.
Some of us UUs have military backgrounds. This doesn’t mean that we are pro-war. It also doesn’t mean that by joining the UU we are required to abandon our background and the way we talk.
It was like the 6 other GA’s I’ve been to, chaos at first, technical glitches as usual, painful Min-assemblies wordsmithing, painful General Assemblies procedures, many 95ish to 5ish votes, dodged a bullet of ending competitive Presidential Elections, the movement for more representational governance, i.e. competitive elections, was side-track by the white supremacy debate…but then…some inspirational workshops, informational workshops, phenomenal Ware Lecture, outstanding Sunday Service, and uplifting music throughout.
Hi, WebMaster. I asked a question on your reposting of the article on anti-Semitism. I haven’t gotten a response, but I figured you were busy with GA. Now that you’re tending to the blog again, will you be answering? It’s an important issue to me.
I’ve been trying to comment on the other posts too, but the comments are either shut off or the website is broken. Where do we post questions?
Jim
2 years ago
Great article. However, the link you have doesn’t work. I had to copy and paste to get to the article. If we learn to put our differences aside and recognise our common humanity, maybe, just maybe, Robin DiAngelo will stop writing these stupid books. I wish. However, there is money to be made from white guilt and UUism seems to be one of the richest veins of white guilt around. The income statement of the UUA for fiscal year 2019 shows a surplus for the year from operations of $2.9 million. Among the larger variances from prior years was a… Read more »
Jim the spirit of your remarks is so vengeful and reactionary it is unworthy of a committed UU. I don’t think any of you have read the books you demean. They exactly aim at the opposite. Not creating guilt, flight, or denial among white people who want to contribute to a fully inclusive, non-discriminatory culture as it is experienced by folks of color. They offer personal experiences and guides to being part of the solution to the problems created by racism. The tone and content of most of y’alls comments sound like all the historic white approaches to every effort… Read more »
I’m sorry you find the remarks of Jim “vengeful,” at least in spirit. I do not think that is a fair characterization. Also, I’m fairly sure that those commenting on the book(s) in question have read them. I understand your insistence that the books, particularly that of DiAngelo, aim away from such as white guilt and so on. But here’s the thing. Those same authors constantly insist the “aim,” or intent, does not matter. What matters to them is effect, almost exclusively. If we follow them, then white guilt and such is the effect many experience. You can’t insist on… Read more »
I would guess that Steve QJ read the book. His headline is “What happens when you weaponise white guilt?” Since he doesn’t have that white fragility thing going on, is he also vengeful and reactionary?
Heh, “demeaning” unread books is more what “committed UU’s” do; like the 500 white ministers who condemned the Gadfly Papers without reading it.
Might I suggest, for balance, you read one of a number of excellent books analyzing what is happening in the association; for example, “Used to Be UU” is a very fine book I have read and highly recommend.
“White Fragility” – a book I have also read – deserves far more “demeaning” than I gave it.
Marcia Shaw
2 years ago
In his article on “Harm” James Anderson quotes Jill McAllister. He references a letter to UUMA but I’d like to see the fuller context of that quote. Please direct us to (or publish) the entire document.
An issue with DiAngelo is she is an extreme example of CRT, sometimes to the point of being a strawman argument for folks such as John McWhorter. I know some CRT supporters who dislike DiAngelo and her seminars, as they feel they are too divisive, shaming, off-putting and counterproductive. To their credit, there are CRT teachers who don’t instruct you to feel bad about yourself or self-flagellate because of the color of your skin. Of course, it’s embarrassing that the UUA holds her up as some sort of icon, but I believe DiAngelo has largely been discredited and even mocked… Read more »
I doubt she has been discredited in many congregations. I am a former board member of a UU church in Southfield, MI who quit the church due to my former minister’s strict adherence to DiAngelo’s philosophy and the new “wokeism” of the UUA. When I raised objections, I was attacked for my “white privilege.” I could have sucked it up and stayed, but I decided I didn’t “belong” and the “beloved” community was a sham. It was the best decision I ever made. I think the current UUA board has done a terrible amount of damage. I’ll never step foot… Read more »
You obviously haven’t read DiAngelo yourself as she carefully avoids doing everything you find offensive. Colleagues it’s important that we keep our concern for representative democracy in the organization from the taint of typical white liberal denial and reaction. If you are simply using representation as a screen for white protectiveness than I am amazed by the hypocrisy. You really should read DiAngelo with some sensitivity. Also, while her anti-racism workshops is one small part of what is being referred to as CRT, using that terminology with no definition simply is an attempt in the UUA and in society at… Read more »
Nothing is a screen. People have a variety of issues.
“This line of thought will sink the popular support for representative governance in UUA. And rightly so.” I hope representative government, like democracy, would be supported by UUs no mater what their views on other issues.
Whenever someone begins their post with something like “obviously you haven’t,” it is wise from there to take the post with a huge grain of salt. In this case, Don declares that Hrc has not read DiAngelo, or read her with sufficient sensitivity, or some other version of what Hrc “obviously” failed to do. All Don offers by way of support for this is that in his opinion DiAngelo takes pains to avoid doing what Hrc finds objectionable. But that is all. There is no example offered. His second sentence is of interest, as he tells us all there that… Read more »
Hrc
2 years ago
I tend to believe that politically, CRT, at least in its extreme form, will go the way of the “Defund the Police” slogan. Democrats were punished so badly for that in the past and perhaps future elections, that most are running away from that slogan. I believe there will be even more of an extreme punishment the more (and if) they run on a “Dismantle white supremacy culture” platform. You have to realize that the current UUA is fringe and radical in the extreme in its views, and is out of touch with the views of most Blacks and POC.… Read more »
Last edited 2 years ago by Hrc
Jacques
2 years ago
In your view, what are some better anti-racist books?
In general, Columbia University’s John McWhorter, who is for making practical structural and legal changes to address racism, says far more useful, practical and common sense about racial justice than anything the UUA endorses. His views are also in alignment with mainstream Black American thought and views.
I’d also avoid books that use “flavor of the month” ideological jargon like “anti-racism.”
He would strongly criticize the UUA’s methods and orthodoxy, and in fact did in an article. He’s called DiAngelo’s ‘White Fragility’ racist, as he feels it treats Blacks as children. Linguist John McWhorter Says ‘White Fragility’ Is Condescending Toward Black People He also says the “anti-racism” theories pushed by the UUA represent only a thin sliver of Black thought, and that, as with all peoples, Blacks have a wide diversity of views and thought. He would say that the UUA representing itself as “the voice of Blacks” is patently false. He would say it’s the voice of a slim minority… Read more »
Amazon has some algorithm that shows customers who bought Schneider’s book also bought Murray’s, and you’re taking that to insinuate Schneider is like Murray? Seriously? Why didn’t you show the list of books that Amazon has as akin to Schneider’s? James Baldwin and Kendi, among others, are on that list. Are they like Murray too? Jesus.
“The Sum of Us” by Heather McGhee. Gets away from zero-sum-game thinking about racial equity issues.
Lee
2 years ago
I read DiAngelo’s book and it wasn’t about making white people feel guilty. It discusses that racism is still alive and well and that if we (of any race) are not careful we will likely, inadvertently, help to perpetuate racism. The book is about awareness raising; nowhere does she say that we should feel guilty.
You’re right. It’s awareness raising. She wants to raise the awareness of white people that they cannot help being racist and so cannot help or escape being guilty of racism. That’s not the same thing as saying they ought to feel guilty. It’s saying they are guilty whether they feel it or not. She says still further that if white people protest their guilt, they’re only trying to deny what they are, which is evidence of the very racism they’re trying to deny.
The way I use it, the word “guilt” has to do with intent (and competence); unless your goal is racism, you are not guilty of racism. If by “guilt” you mean something different from that, that could explain why everyone is shouting at each other and not feeling heard. Using my definition … if some of your actions are racist in impact despite the lack of racist intent then you have a decision to make. If your decision is to try to adapt those actions (despite their good or neutral intentions) towards dismantling racism that’s called being an “anti-racist” by… Read more »
Guilt has two basic definitions: the fact of having committed a specified or implied offense or crime. make (someone) feel guilty, especially in order to induce them to do something. You can fool around with your own definition of guilt to suit your purpose if you want to, but DiAngelo is “guilty” of exploiting both meanings, particularly the first. For her, white people are guilty of racism free of any specific acts because they are according to her racists. This means that their intentions are immaterial. So no, guilt for her has nothing to do with intent. Further, white people… Read more »
My goal is not to enforce one definition of “guilt” over another. My goal is to translate between the definitions that are in use. My hope is that such translations will highlight that both sides are talking sense; and both sides are already in agreement more than they realize.
So the definition that Steve QJ used for the word guilt is not the one you are using. So you have switched definitions in your declaration that Robin DiAngelo is not racist. Wasn’t it your intent to counter SteveQJ’s assessment? OK…the impact of your statement was to counter Steve QJ’s assessment of Robin DiAngelo. But it’s not about your definition. And without knowing your intent…not that it matters…I can only conclude you don’t want to really look at your beliefs and anytime someone brings up a point that might challenge them, you rationalize it by redefining terms. How many times… Read more »
You touch on a lot of different aspects of what is going on, as does Steve QJ. That’s good because these discussions need to happen. But I fear if I try to respond to all of them in a single post now, that will be chaos. So, here’s a small subset. Steve QJ says “The most valuable contribution most people can make is to change their world. To stop treating black people as a field of study and start treating us like ordinary human beings. To realise that there’s not much difference between treating us like animals who can’t think… Read more »
Here’s the thing…I would really like to see arguments of support for the UUA CRT “anti-racist” approach. All I see is logical fallacies, derogatory language, and silence. The impact of that is I continue to believe that this approach is detrimental to Unitarian Universalism.
You make this assumption that because I object to the logical fallacies and derogatory language, that I am ignorant of racism. You keep explaining things to me like I am five years old.
I understand the treated-like-a-five-year-old thing because I feel that too sometimes. I suspect that is because we don’t feel like we are being heard. Thank you for telling me — I will try to do better — and I welcome further feedback along those lines. To your question … the UUA anti-racist approach urges that our congregations (and committees) look at internal policies and procedures and consider whether they (inadvertently) have racist impact. To the extent that they do, the UUA anti-racist approach urges us to improve them. I approve of this. For example, maybe our celebrations and commemorations are… Read more »
I think that you are saying that our reasons for feeling that we are treated like five year olds are different, and in particular that my “I suspect that …” is wrong. Thank you for telling me. I apologize for getting that wrong.
a positive white identity is an impossible goal. White identity is inherently racist; white people do not exist outside the system of white supremacy.” – p 149. “White Fragility
There are many fine traditions, art forms, wisdom tales, celebrations, music, etc. coming from many sources. They come from places like Ireland, Italy, Iraq, Israel, Bolivia, Botswana, Bangladesh, Brazil, and so on. There is much to appreciate here.
The problem is when we start grouping these identities by skin color. What positive purpose does that serve? One obvious negative purpose is racism: slavery. Jim Crow, and more modern forms of racism. That’s what DiAngelo is talking about. But, what’s the positive purpose that such grouping by skin color achieves?
Grouping identities by skin color, particularly White skin color, is exactly what “White Fragility” is all about. And, you’re right, it serves no positive purpose.
The use of skin color for oppression and granting privilege is a bad thing. Acknowledging that this is happening is a good step towards finding the cure even though, technically, it can be classified as continuing the discussion about skin color.
As I see it, in stark contrast to the wonders of the cultures originating in England, France, Germany, Egypt, Korea, Chad, India, Mexico, Russia, UAE, etc. or even Oklahoma, New York, etc., the culture of “whiteness” is only about skin color and racism, and is thus a negative.
If you see a positive purpose for celebrating white skin color for its own sake, please share it.
Unfortunately, I don’t understand your reply. I am saying that I agree with DiAngelo that, as starkly distinguished from English, Egyptian, etc., the culture of “whiteness” is only about skin color and racism, and is thus a negative.
Excellent question. Let me try to give an answer. I can understand that a victim of a multitude of microaggressions will appear to be sensitive. Yes, each negative impact may be small by itself, but together they are too much. That DiAngelo’s White Fragility can be perceived as a guilt trip for white people is also a negative impact. Sure, I suppose someone could argue that the effects are not on the same scale: a few minor cuts, for some people who usually don’t get quite so many, is not the same as the bombardment that affects people of color.… Read more »
That’s fine. You can take from DiAngelo what you want and leave the rest. That is what we generally do anyway. But this is about what DiAngelo is actually teaching. And what she is actually teaching is that white property are guilty of racism because they are racists. Given that, it is easy to see why most people take it as guilt trip. The fact is, there is nothing wrong with that perception.
I fully acknowledge that I continue to commit microaggressions. I fully acknowledge that I have frequently opted for non-racist intent and overlooked my racist impact. Identifying that this has happened is step 1 towards making the world a better place.
But, here is the thing. I don’t think of myself as a bad person despite that I have done these things. And I believe that that is exactly what DiAngelo is trying to say. The recipe is (1) recognize the problem and (2) try to make things better. The thing about feeling guilty is not part of the recipe.
Neither negative impact is justified. That’s why I try to both (1) be self-aware and preventative about microaggressions that I commit and (2) urge people to see anti-racism work as uplifting rather than as some sort of guilt trip. I have not achieved perfection on either front but I am committed to doing my best.
I didn’t realize that Steve QJ is the author of the piece that the original blog entry links to; now I do. As I see it, Steve QJ and DiAngelo are mostly in agreement, and where they appear to be in disagreement, much of the time it is because of different shades of meaning of the words that they are using. I am not saying that the two authors are identical, but I am saying that I find both to be quite valuable.
I already discussed Steve QJ’s paragraph that begins “The most valuable contribution most people can make is to change their world” above. I think DiAngelo would agree with that. Another paragraph of Steve QJ’s is ““Robin DiAngelo is the Vanilla Ice of anti-racism. A safe, familiar face that allows guilty progressives to enjoy something they’d always considered a little too “urban”. A pale imitation of something that black people with more talent have been doing for decades. A novelty act whose tone-deaf ramblings cheapen the efforts of everybody who’s gone before.” I think DiAngelo would agree that she represents a… Read more »
Steve QJ writes: “Robin DiAngelo’s “White Fragility” has singlehandedly confused millions of people about race. It manages to talk down to black people and white people, all whilst offering nothing in the way of solutions.” Have you asked Robin DiAngelo how she feels about those statements. Why do you think you know how she thinks? As for whether or not Robin DiAngelo has a positive impact on racial equality, “tone-deaf ramblings cheapen the effort” doesn’t sound like Steve QJ agrees with you. And neither does Joseph Coco from the comments of the articleo (the first one)…isn’t this a microaggression: “This! I’m completely… Read more »
I disagree with “Robin DiAngelo’s “White Fragility” has singlehandedly confused millions of people about race. It manages to talk down to black people and white people, all whilst offering nothing in the way of solutions” on several points. DiAngelo is not singlehandedly responsible, there are plenty of accomplices. There are millions of people who derived benefit from the work. There are many people who do not feel talked down to — I have encountered dozens of them myself, and given how popular the book is, I am guessing millions. (Yes, there are also those who feel talked down to.) She does propose… Read more »
I do not think they are in total agreement. Nor do I think that either of them is right 100% of the time. They and you (!) all say things that are worth listening to nonetheless. Call me a glass half full person … I find this useful, for myself and for anti-racism work generally, despite that there are also disagreements involved.
“But if we allow White Fragility and similar works to become the handbooks for addressing these injustices, there will be zero meaningful progress to speak of—at least for those of us who aren’t killed by officers trained to recognize their “racial stress.””
Racism has been around for eons and if there were a simple solution, we’d have done it long ago. White Fragility has one set of ideas that will work in some contexts to some extent. Other authors also have good ideas. If we think we will solve racism by picking just one author and following only those ideas, we will fail. (So, yes, addressing the injustices mentioned by Simmons using only White Fragility is indeed a recipe for failure.) We will also fail if we dismiss each contribution in its entirety because it has some flaws; they all do have… Read more »
And of course, there’s that correlation fallacy, assuming that Robin DiAngelo is raising awareness about racism vs that awareness of racism has put Robin DiAngelo in the spotlight.
Patrick O'Neill
2 years ago
I was a delegate to the General Assembly representing our rural congregation in New York. We support social action and progressive causes, but we also support a democratic organization. The UU is run like a single-party autocracy at this time, or a religion where the pope picks the cardinals, and the cardinals pick the pope. That’s OK if that’s what you want to belong to, but I joined UU because its congregations accepted every voice with respect, and was willing to listen. During the on-line debate for the “contested” position, I was disgusted by the posted comments that somehow twisted… Read more »
How did General Assembly go?
Yes I would like to know!
Me too!
Enough people want to keep competitive elections for president to defeat the amendment which would have allowed a reduction to one candidate. The AIW on COVID-19 and health care passed, as did a resolution for UUA to divest from companies which are anti-union, environmental polluters, and owners of sweatshops.
I hear Jay Kiskel only got less than 15% of the vote for UUA trustee?
Yes. 13% I think. But let us remember that around 500 of the delegate population of any GA are religious professionals appointed by the UUA. As I said elsewhere, we regard this election as something of a shot across the proverbial bow.
“A shot across the proverbial blow”? Is that like your describing Jay Kiskel’s campaign as him being “the first Marine on the beach”? You don’t usually hear militaristic type language among UUs talking about the direction of our movement.
The UUA and UU World use the term “militant,” so you’re incorrect.
Some of us UUs have military backgrounds. This doesn’t mean that we are pro-war. It also doesn’t mean that by joining the UU we are required to abandon our background and the way we talk.
Rev. Sarah won’t be happy until it’s down to 0%: https://www.facebook.com/125462391438714/videos/155370176656562
It was like the 6 other GA’s I’ve been to, chaos at first, technical glitches as usual, painful Min-assemblies wordsmithing, painful General Assemblies procedures, many 95ish to 5ish votes, dodged a bullet of ending competitive Presidential Elections, the movement for more representational governance, i.e. competitive elections, was side-track by the white supremacy debate…but then…some inspirational workshops, informational workshops, phenomenal Ware Lecture, outstanding Sunday Service, and uplifting music throughout.
“The movement for more representational governance i.e. competitive elections was sidetracked by the white supremacy debate” Say more?
Hi, WebMaster. I asked a question on your reposting of the article on anti-Semitism. I haven’t gotten a response, but I figured you were busy with GA. Now that you’re tending to the blog again, will you be answering? It’s an important issue to me.
I don’t recall the question, Amy. Please re-post it to the thread in which it belongs. If that is unavailable, let me know.
I’ve been trying to comment on the other posts too, but the comments are either shut off or the website is broken. Where do we post questions?
Great article. However, the link you have doesn’t work. I had to copy and paste to get to the article. If we learn to put our differences aside and recognise our common humanity, maybe, just maybe, Robin DiAngelo will stop writing these stupid books. I wish. However, there is money to be made from white guilt and UUism seems to be one of the richest veins of white guilt around. The income statement of the UUA for fiscal year 2019 shows a surplus for the year from operations of $2.9 million. Among the larger variances from prior years was a… Read more »
I fixed the link.
Jim the spirit of your remarks is so vengeful and reactionary it is unworthy of a committed UU. I don’t think any of you have read the books you demean. They exactly aim at the opposite. Not creating guilt, flight, or denial among white people who want to contribute to a fully inclusive, non-discriminatory culture as it is experienced by folks of color. They offer personal experiences and guides to being part of the solution to the problems created by racism. The tone and content of most of y’alls comments sound like all the historic white approaches to every effort… Read more »
I’m sorry you find the remarks of Jim “vengeful,” at least in spirit. I do not think that is a fair characterization. Also, I’m fairly sure that those commenting on the book(s) in question have read them. I understand your insistence that the books, particularly that of DiAngelo, aim away from such as white guilt and so on. But here’s the thing. Those same authors constantly insist the “aim,” or intent, does not matter. What matters to them is effect, almost exclusively. If we follow them, then white guilt and such is the effect many experience. You can’t insist on… Read more »
I would guess that Steve QJ read the book. His headline is “What happens when you weaponise white guilt?” Since he doesn’t have that white fragility thing going on, is he also vengeful and reactionary?
Heh, “demeaning” unread books is more what “committed UU’s” do; like the 500 white ministers who condemned the Gadfly Papers without reading it.
Might I suggest, for balance, you read one of a number of excellent books analyzing what is happening in the association; for example, “Used to Be UU” is a very fine book I have read and highly recommend.
“White Fragility” – a book I have also read – deserves far more “demeaning” than I gave it.
In his article on “Harm” James Anderson quotes Jill McAllister. He references a letter to UUMA but I’d like to see the fuller context of that quote. Please direct us to (or publish) the entire document.
https://uucorvallis.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Controversy-Within-the-UU-Ministers-Association.pdf
An issue with DiAngelo is she is an extreme example of CRT, sometimes to the point of being a strawman argument for folks such as John McWhorter. I know some CRT supporters who dislike DiAngelo and her seminars, as they feel they are too divisive, shaming, off-putting and counterproductive. To their credit, there are CRT teachers who don’t instruct you to feel bad about yourself or self-flagellate because of the color of your skin. Of course, it’s embarrassing that the UUA holds her up as some sort of icon, but I believe DiAngelo has largely been discredited and even mocked… Read more »
I doubt she has been discredited in many congregations. I am a former board member of a UU church in Southfield, MI who quit the church due to my former minister’s strict adherence to DiAngelo’s philosophy and the new “wokeism” of the UUA. When I raised objections, I was attacked for my “white privilege.” I could have sucked it up and stayed, but I decided I didn’t “belong” and the “beloved” community was a sham. It was the best decision I ever made. I think the current UUA board has done a terrible amount of damage. I’ll never step foot… Read more »
You obviously haven’t read DiAngelo yourself as she carefully avoids doing everything you find offensive. Colleagues it’s important that we keep our concern for representative democracy in the organization from the taint of typical white liberal denial and reaction. If you are simply using representation as a screen for white protectiveness than I am amazed by the hypocrisy. You really should read DiAngelo with some sensitivity. Also, while her anti-racism workshops is one small part of what is being referred to as CRT, using that terminology with no definition simply is an attempt in the UUA and in society at… Read more »
Nothing is a screen. People have a variety of issues.
“This line of thought will sink the popular support for representative governance in UUA. And rightly so.” I hope representative government, like democracy, would be supported by UUs no mater what their views on other issues.
Whenever someone begins their post with something like “obviously you haven’t,” it is wise from there to take the post with a huge grain of salt. In this case, Don declares that Hrc has not read DiAngelo, or read her with sufficient sensitivity, or some other version of what Hrc “obviously” failed to do. All Don offers by way of support for this is that in his opinion DiAngelo takes pains to avoid doing what Hrc finds objectionable. But that is all. There is no example offered. His second sentence is of interest, as he tells us all there that… Read more »
I tend to believe that politically, CRT, at least in its extreme form, will go the way of the “Defund the Police” slogan. Democrats were punished so badly for that in the past and perhaps future elections, that most are running away from that slogan. I believe there will be even more of an extreme punishment the more (and if) they run on a “Dismantle white supremacy culture” platform. You have to realize that the current UUA is fringe and radical in the extreme in its views, and is out of touch with the views of most Blacks and POC.… Read more »
In your view, what are some better anti-racist books?
In general, Columbia University’s John McWhorter, who is for making practical structural and legal changes to address racism, says far more useful, practical and common sense about racial justice than anything the UUA endorses. His views are also in alignment with mainstream Black American thought and views.
I’d also avoid books that use “flavor of the month” ideological jargon like “anti-racism.”
Re: McWhorter. How would his take relate to UU, and the particular issues UUs have with race and racism?
He would strongly criticize the UUA’s methods and orthodoxy, and in fact did in an article. He’s called DiAngelo’s ‘White Fragility’ racist, as he feels it treats Blacks as children. Linguist John McWhorter Says ‘White Fragility’ Is Condescending Toward Black People He also says the “anti-racism” theories pushed by the UUA represent only a thin sliver of Black thought, and that, as with all peoples, Blacks have a wide diversity of views and thought. He would say that the UUA representing itself as “the voice of Blacks” is patently false. He would say it’s the voice of a slim minority… Read more »
How do we know if McWhorter’s views are representative of most Black people’s views?
We don’t, no more than we can assume the views of UU leadership are representative of most Black people.
Here are some books dealing with the “particular issues UUs have”
“A Self-confessed White Supremacy Culture”
https://www.amazon.com/Self-Confessed-White-Supremacy-Culture-Universalism-ebook/dp/B07XJZ8CZV/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=a+self-confessed+white+supremacy+culture&qid=1621874955&sr=8-2
“The Gadfly Affair”
https://www.amazon.com/Gadfly-Affair-Heretics-Excommunication-Americas/dp/B091WJ6Q5C/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+gadfly+affair&qid=1621875070&sr=8-1
“And, of course, the old favorite:
The Gadfly Papers”
https://www.amazon.com/Gadfly-Papers-Inconvenient-Essays-Minister/dp/1070524484/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+gadfly+papers&qid=1625071706&sr=8-1
And don’t forget:
“Used to be UU”
https://www.amazon.com/Used-Be-UU-Systematic-Liberalism/dp/B08ZBFFBVG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=used+to+be+uu&qid=1621874672&sr=8-1
If “A Self-confessed White Supremacy Culture” is an anti-racist book, why does Amazon suggest alongside it the well-known racist Charles Murray?
Amazon has some algorithm that shows customers who bought Schneider’s book also bought Murray’s, and you’re taking that to insinuate Schneider is like Murray? Seriously? Why didn’t you show the list of books that Amazon has as akin to Schneider’s? James Baldwin and Kendi, among others, are on that list. Are they like Murray too? Jesus.
Good point.
How do you find anti-racist books while avoiding the term “anti-racism”?
“Don’t Label Me” by Irshad Manji
“The Sum of Us” by Heather McGhee. Gets away from zero-sum-game thinking about racial equity issues.
I read DiAngelo’s book and it wasn’t about making white people feel guilty. It discusses that racism is still alive and well and that if we (of any race) are not careful we will likely, inadvertently, help to perpetuate racism. The book is about awareness raising; nowhere does she say that we should feel guilty.
I strongly suspect that eliminating racism would be Robin’s worst nightmare.
You’re right. It’s awareness raising. She wants to raise the awareness of white people that they cannot help being racist and so cannot help or escape being guilty of racism. That’s not the same thing as saying they ought to feel guilty. It’s saying they are guilty whether they feel it or not. She says still further that if white people protest their guilt, they’re only trying to deny what they are, which is evidence of the very racism they’re trying to deny.
The way I use it, the word “guilt” has to do with intent (and competence); unless your goal is racism, you are not guilty of racism. If by “guilt” you mean something different from that, that could explain why everyone is shouting at each other and not feeling heard. Using my definition … if some of your actions are racist in impact despite the lack of racist intent then you have a decision to make. If your decision is to try to adapt those actions (despite their good or neutral intentions) towards dismantling racism that’s called being an “anti-racist” by… Read more »
Guilt has two basic definitions: the fact of having committed a specified or implied offense or crime. make (someone) feel guilty, especially in order to induce them to do something. You can fool around with your own definition of guilt to suit your purpose if you want to, but DiAngelo is “guilty” of exploiting both meanings, particularly the first. For her, white people are guilty of racism free of any specific acts because they are according to her racists. This means that their intentions are immaterial. So no, guilt for her has nothing to do with intent. Further, white people… Read more »
BTW, this is a logical fallacy where you redefine guilt.
My goal is not to enforce one definition of “guilt” over another. My goal is to translate between the definitions that are in use. My hope is that such translations will highlight that both sides are talking sense; and both sides are already in agreement more than they realize.
So the definition that Steve QJ used for the word guilt is not the one you are using. So you have switched definitions in your declaration that Robin DiAngelo is not racist. Wasn’t it your intent to counter SteveQJ’s assessment? OK…the impact of your statement was to counter Steve QJ’s assessment of Robin DiAngelo. But it’s not about your definition. And without knowing your intent…not that it matters…I can only conclude you don’t want to really look at your beliefs and anytime someone brings up a point that might challenge them, you rationalize it by redefining terms. How many times… Read more »
You touch on a lot of different aspects of what is going on, as does Steve QJ. That’s good because these discussions need to happen. But I fear if I try to respond to all of them in a single post now, that will be chaos. So, here’s a small subset. Steve QJ says “The most valuable contribution most people can make is to change their world. To stop treating black people as a field of study and start treating us like ordinary human beings. To realise that there’s not much difference between treating us like animals who can’t think… Read more »
Here’s the thing…I would really like to see arguments of support for the UUA CRT “anti-racist” approach. All I see is logical fallacies, derogatory language, and silence. The impact of that is I continue to believe that this approach is detrimental to Unitarian Universalism.
You make this assumption that because I object to the logical fallacies and derogatory language, that I am ignorant of racism. You keep explaining things to me like I am five years old.
I understand the treated-like-a-five-year-old thing because I feel that too sometimes. I suspect that is because we don’t feel like we are being heard. Thank you for telling me — I will try to do better — and I welcome further feedback along those lines. To your question … the UUA anti-racist approach urges that our congregations (and committees) look at internal policies and procedures and consider whether they (inadvertently) have racist impact. To the extent that they do, the UUA anti-racist approach urges us to improve them. I approve of this. For example, maybe our celebrations and commemorations are… Read more »
You redefine my feelings?
I think that you are saying that our reasons for feeling that we are treated like five year olds are different, and in particular that my “I suspect that …” is wrong. Thank you for telling me. I apologize for getting that wrong.
There are many fine traditions, art forms, wisdom tales, celebrations, music, etc. coming from many sources. They come from places like Ireland, Italy, Iraq, Israel, Bolivia, Botswana, Bangladesh, Brazil, and so on. There is much to appreciate here.
The problem is when we start grouping these identities by skin color. What positive purpose does that serve? One obvious negative purpose is racism: slavery. Jim Crow, and more modern forms of racism. That’s what DiAngelo is talking about. But, what’s the positive purpose that such grouping by skin color achieves?
Grouping identities by skin color, particularly White skin color, is exactly what “White Fragility” is all about. And, you’re right, it serves no positive purpose.
The use of skin color for oppression and granting privilege is a bad thing. Acknowledging that this is happening is a good step towards finding the cure even though, technically, it can be classified as continuing the discussion about skin color.
Technically, that is hypocrisy.
As I see it, in stark contrast to the wonders of the cultures originating in England, France, Germany, Egypt, Korea, Chad, India, Mexico, Russia, UAE, etc. or even Oklahoma, New York, etc., the culture of “whiteness” is only about skin color and racism, and is thus a negative.
If you see a positive purpose for celebrating white skin color for its own sake, please share it.
Well, then, it appears we both agree that Robin DiAngelo’s arguments are racist and hypocritical.
Unfortunately, I don’t understand your reply. I am saying that I agree with DiAngelo that, as starkly distinguished from English, Egyptian, etc., the culture of “whiteness” is only about skin color and racism, and is thus a negative.
Not to belabor the point, it doesn’t matter what Robin DiAngelo’s intentions are…only her impact.
Clearly, some people feel that “White Fragility” is about making white people feel guilty. Why are you dismissing the impact of her book.
Excellent question. Let me try to give an answer. I can understand that a victim of a multitude of microaggressions will appear to be sensitive. Yes, each negative impact may be small by itself, but together they are too much. That DiAngelo’s White Fragility can be perceived as a guilt trip for white people is also a negative impact. Sure, I suppose someone could argue that the effects are not on the same scale: a few minor cuts, for some people who usually don’t get quite so many, is not the same as the bombardment that affects people of color.… Read more »
That’s fine. You can take from DiAngelo what you want and leave the rest. That is what we generally do anyway. But this is about what DiAngelo is actually teaching. And what she is actually teaching is that white property are guilty of racism because they are racists. Given that, it is easy to see why most people take it as guilt trip. The fact is, there is nothing wrong with that perception.
I fully acknowledge that I continue to commit microaggressions. I fully acknowledge that I have frequently opted for non-racist intent and overlooked my racist impact. Identifying that this has happened is step 1 towards making the world a better place.
But, here is the thing. I don’t think of myself as a bad person despite that I have done these things. And I believe that that is exactly what DiAngelo is trying to say. The recipe is (1) recognize the problem and (2) try to make things better. The thing about feeling guilty is not part of the recipe.
It seems to me you are saying the negative impact white people experience is justified and only microaggressions against POC are worthy of effort.
Neither negative impact is justified. That’s why I try to both (1) be self-aware and preventative about microaggressions that I commit and (2) urge people to see anti-racism work as uplifting rather than as some sort of guilt trip. I have not achieved perfection on either front but I am committed to doing my best.
And it interesting you defend Robin DiAngelo, a white person over Steve QJ, a black person. Why is that?
I don’t know anything about Steve QJ. That is an ignorance on my part.
I didn’t realize that Steve QJ is the author of the piece that the original blog entry links to; now I do. As I see it, Steve QJ and DiAngelo are mostly in agreement, and where they appear to be in disagreement, much of the time it is because of different shades of meaning of the words that they are using. I am not saying that the two authors are identical, but I am saying that I find both to be quite valuable.
Frankly, I’ve no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that QJ and DiAngelo agree. They don’t agree on a thing.
Which words did you change the meaning of to reach the conclusion that Steve QJ and Robin DiAngelo agree?
I already discussed Steve QJ’s paragraph that begins “The most valuable contribution most people can make is to change their world” above. I think DiAngelo would agree with that. Another paragraph of Steve QJ’s is ““Robin DiAngelo is the Vanilla Ice of anti-racism. A safe, familiar face that allows guilty progressives to enjoy something they’d always considered a little too “urban”. A pale imitation of something that black people with more talent have been doing for decades. A novelty act whose tone-deaf ramblings cheapen the efforts of everybody who’s gone before.” I think DiAngelo would agree that she represents a… Read more »
Steve QJ writes: “Robin DiAngelo’s “White Fragility” has singlehandedly confused millions of people about race. It manages to talk down to black people and white people, all whilst offering nothing in the way of solutions.” Have you asked Robin DiAngelo how she feels about those statements. Why do you think you know how she thinks? As for whether or not Robin DiAngelo has a positive impact on racial equality, “tone-deaf ramblings cheapen the effort” doesn’t sound like Steve QJ agrees with you. And neither does Joseph Coco from the comments of the articleo (the first one)…isn’t this a microaggression: “This! I’m completely… Read more »
I disagree with “Robin DiAngelo’s “White Fragility” has singlehandedly confused millions of people about race. It manages to talk down to black people and white people, all whilst offering nothing in the way of solutions” on several points. DiAngelo is not singlehandedly responsible, there are plenty of accomplices. There are millions of people who derived benefit from the work. There are many people who do not feel talked down to — I have encountered dozens of them myself, and given how popular the book is, I am guessing millions. (Yes, there are also those who feel talked down to.) She does propose… Read more »
You said, “As I see it, Steve QJ and DiAngelo are mostly in agreement,…”
Since you disagree with Steve QJ on the impact of “White Fragility” does that mean you don’t think they are in agreement anymore?
And you’ve made a bandwagon fallacy.
I do not think they are in total agreement. Nor do I think that either of them is right 100% of the time. They and you (!) all say things that are worth listening to nonetheless. Call me a glass half full person … I find this useful, for myself and for anti-racism work generally, despite that there are also disagreements involved.
So you ignore all the damage so you can feel good?
More perspective:
https://www.thebellows.org/im-black-and-afraid-of-white-fragility/
“But if we allow White Fragility and similar works to become the handbooks for addressing these injustices, there will be zero meaningful progress to speak of—at least for those of us who aren’t killed by officers trained to recognize their “racial stress.””
Racism has been around for eons and if there were a simple solution, we’d have done it long ago. White Fragility has one set of ideas that will work in some contexts to some extent. Other authors also have good ideas. If we think we will solve racism by picking just one author and following only those ideas, we will fail. (So, yes, addressing the injustices mentioned by Simmons using only White Fragility is indeed a recipe for failure.) We will also fail if we dismiss each contribution in its entirety because it has some flaws; they all do have… Read more »
And of course, there’s that correlation fallacy, assuming that Robin DiAngelo is raising awareness about racism vs that awareness of racism has put Robin DiAngelo in the spotlight.
I was a delegate to the General Assembly representing our rural congregation in New York. We support social action and progressive causes, but we also support a democratic organization. The UU is run like a single-party autocracy at this time, or a religion where the pope picks the cardinals, and the cardinals pick the pope. That’s OK if that’s what you want to belong to, but I joined UU because its congregations accepted every voice with respect, and was willing to listen. During the on-line debate for the “contested” position, I was disgusted by the posted comments that somehow twisted… Read more »